Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Leadership isn't about titles. It's about vision, resilience and growth. I'm Erica Butler, and on the Go Hire show, we talk about the tools and strategies that help you lead with impact, grow your business, and build teams that thrive. From real estate to cultural agility, from managing diverse teams to creating work life harmony Gohire helps you rise above challenges and step into your next level. Catch Go Higher every week on Now Media Television, we're streaming on Roku, Apple TV, SiriusXM, iHeartRadio and all other major platforms. Let's go higher together.
Welcome to Go Higher, where we explore the insights, strategies and leadership practices that empower individuals and organizations to achieve their fullest potential. I'm your host, Erica Butler. Today I'm joined by someone I look up to very much. His name's Alan Neville, CEO and managing partner of IN tefc, an incredible organization that he founded within the last few years. Alan brings over 30 years of executive experience from organizations like the Metro Health System, Thermal, Fisher, Scientific, Fortune 100, Victoria's Secret, and Accenture. He is also an adjunct professor, a published author, and a leader deeply committed to shaping organizational culture, talent and innovation.
Alan, I'm so glad you're here and welcome to the show.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Thanks, Erica. It is a privilege and a pleasure to be here with you today.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Well, I really appreciate you having you as a guest and I know we're going to learn a lot from you today.
So this is a big topic I want to talk with you about. Many leaders face cultures where mistrust lingers beneath the surface. It damages morale, productivity, and engagement of the team. The challenge is not only spotting when trust is broken, but knowing how to rebuild it in a way that really sticks and helps everyone grow forward in the right direction.
So a question I wanted to ask your professional opinion. From all your decades of C suite leadership, all your years of experience, what are those early signs that trust have been damaged in a team or organization even if people aren't openly speaking up about it?
[00:02:11] Speaker B: I think there are a couple of things that over the course of my career that I've noticed.
Really, a lot of times it's those nonverbal behaviors. To your point, a lot of times you won't hear people speak up because they may not be in a psychologically safe environment where they can express their feelings, but when you notice you've got high turnover in an organization, people are there for less than a year and then all of a sudden they leave.
That's a telltale sign. Another one is when you notice that people are physically there, but they've mentally, spiritually, emotionally checked out.
So body language, you notice a lot of those things.
And it's really sad when you look at an organization and realize that culture really is set from the top of the organization, from the leadership. So when you've got instances where leaders are not respected, they're not viewed as being their true authentic selves, it shows up a lot of times in organizations. One of the things I wanted to mention, you spoke of the name of my company, and it's a very unusual name, so I just wanted to give you a little context around that. So the name of my company is Intethic, and that represents an intentional focus on. On some things that are very near and dear to me. So first and foremost, integrity. So when we talk about this topic of where culture has been eroded, there's a lack of integrity generally on the side. In the format of leadership, you don't see leaders who walk with integrity. The second piece around that is authenticity.
If you're not your true authentic self, people will notice.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: So integrity, authenticity. The next one is ethics.
Operating in an ethical manner. And again, this starts from the top down through the organization. And last but not least, equity for all. Ensuring that you've got a work environment where everyone has a sense of belonging. It doesn't matter whether you have a title in the front of your name or in the back of your name, at the end of the day, you are a valued contributor to the organization just as much as anyone else.
[00:04:28] Speaker A: I think you explained that so well. Why you're the perfect person to be talking to today. Alan and I just reflect back to over a decade ago when we met and started working together. You really live those things. And even though you were C suite reporting to CEO of a Fortune 100 company, you made time for anyone who wanted your time. You've somehow found a way to put people first and you brought your full self. You were very authentic. You told real stories. And I just think that's why you made the company a better place. From disc to diversity, equity, so many areas, you. You made improvements, and I felt them in my role. So, yes, I think that's. I love the name of your company and it's just I'm very inspired by the path you continue to be on. So let's move on.
So what steps can a leader take to begin rebuilding trust? Especially when past promises were broken, there was a lack of ethics, lack of integrity. What do you recommend?
[00:05:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the first thing you have to do, and let's Play this out in terms of a new leader kind of inheriting that role in that organization where trust has been broken, I had the unfortunate opportunity to live in an environment like that where we had a transition in terms of leadership. And I think what you have to do to that point of you mentioned, when we first met, I made sure I made time for everyone. I think that's the first thing that leaders have to do.
And rather than talk, you have to listen.
So where trust has been broken, I think the first thing you have to do is basically have a listening tour in your organization where you are actually listening to the hearts and minds, the voices of the employees at that organization.
And my recommendation is to start with the lowest levels of the organization in terms of title, seniority, etc. Because quite often those are the folks who are most often forgotten. Those are the folks who slip through the cracks.
So from a leadership perspective, not only listening, but also keeping it real, being authentic and saying, yes, we've had these issues, let's not pretend that they didn't happen.
Let's not pretend that we aren't broken as an organization, but come in with a level of authenticity and transparency to say, yes, we've made some mistakes, but we're going to get better. So I think being able to motivate and inspire folks while still acknowledging what went wrong is very important. The other piece from a change management perspective around this is, is to understand that while the culture of the organization may have taken a hit, maybe trust was eroded, it wasn't always that way. So I think having a historical perspective of the organization will also help to rally folks.
So my experience really was with an organization that had been around for over 100 years.
So understandably so, it wasn't bad for 100 years, okay, we had a couple of different leaders who came in and perhaps they didn't lead with authenticity, perhaps they didn't lead with transparency, perhaps they didn't live up to the values of the organization.
By no means does that mean that the organization is bad.
So I think it's a combination of sharing some of those stories from past successes prior to your arrival as that new CEO, that new department head, what have you, and acknowledging the past and treating that with respect while still acknowledging that there's still room for improvement, and that's why I'm here. Another piece around that I believe is quite often leaders walk into that type of environment expecting to know all the answers and you can't and you won't. So it requires a level of humility on Your part as a leader, again, to listen with both head and heart, to truly understand what's going on and engage the employees to make things better. Again, you're not expected to come up with every solution, engage and empower your staff.
So then there's a sense of ownership. Everyone feels as though they have skin in the game.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: And it's amazing to see the solutions that come when you actually listen and hear what other levels of the organization have to say. There is a lot of solutions you'll find there. And I remember you came to one of the sites I was at with a, as a trainer and you went around and you sat with customer service team members. You, you really sat with them and you listen in the calls and you, I really think you role model that well for other leaders to, to watch and learn. So yeah, I just want to share a tangible example I saw.
Awesome. I completely agree with you, Alan.
So how can transparent communication help? What kind of, and what kind of like transparency matters? So is it on, you know, the goals, failures, the decision criteria? Like what are these? Where would you put your focus?
[00:09:32] Speaker B: I believe in terms of transparency, it's about being open and being real with folks in both the good times and the bad. I've seen organizations where they only share the good news and then when bad things happen, people feel blindsided, they're surprised, they're not prepared for that. So I think being open and honest at all times, and obviously you may not be able to go into all of the details, but I think allowing people to understand that they're part of the solution, that they're part of the journey and something's not being done to them or against them is very important. So you know, to me, I don't believe you can ever over communicate, quite frankly, that's my perspective. But you also have to understand that in your communications you have to meet people where they are.
So I worked for an organization where the assumption was made that everyone went out to the company intranet every day to see what was going on in the organization.
Well, what we didn't realize was that there was a whole population of folks who, number one, didn't have laptop or desktop computer access.
So how were they going to check the daily intranet news feed?
The second thing was they were constantly working over that eight to ten hour period. So they never had even a break to check those things. So in terms of communication, you have to understand your audience.
That may consist of having regular town hall meetings, perhaps that's having a daily huddle, you know, before the shift starts.
We would do those types of things to ensure that everyone was on the same page and, and aligned around what was going on in the organization.
Not just the day to day tactical business, but even higher level. Where are we at in terms of our overall growth strategy as a business? I love that every single person feels involved.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. And it leads us really well into our next question. But I think that planful consistency is so important. You can't do it well one month and then not the next. So what role do you feel consistent actions, not just words, play in restoring trust? And you did talk about that a little bit. But anything else from a consistency standpoint, what role do consistent actions, not just words, play in restoring trust? Related to what you just said about consistent huddles? All of those things.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: I think in terms of leaders and the role that they can play, what has worked for us has been it's not always the leader's voice that's being heard in terms of leading those huddles, leading those town halls. What we've been able to do is really.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Just like pushing decision making down to where it matters most. We've also allowed our staff, our employees to lead those huddles, to lead those conversations.
So you're again, you're giving everyone an opportunity to be involved in the solution and it's not just coming from the top of the organization.
So everyone's voice is heard, you're constantly elevating them.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: That's what I keep hearing, which I love that and that's a theme of this show.
So just in closing this, Sigma Alan, what last pieces of advice do you have when you see broken trust and in that when do you know what are the results you're going to see when it's being restored?
[00:13:02] Speaker B: There are a couple different ways to, I believe, measure the results. One of the things that we've done in the past is rather than wait for, for your annual employee opinion survey to take place, when you walk into an environment where trust has been eroded, you've had perhaps some, some, some difficult circumstances and then new leaders come in. What we've been doing is, is really doing focus groups across the organization to get a pulse, if you will, on a regular basis. So doing that every 60, 90 days to engage folks because you may have what I would refer to as hotspots, hot spots of concern within the organization.
So there may be an overall general malaise in terms of the culture, but you may have some areas that have been impacted more negatively than others. So I think having that focus group format works really, really well. And also doing pulse surveys, maybe it's four or five questions that are deployed through whatever electronic means to get a pulse check on what's going on.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: I love that because you can turn more quickly and fix things more quickly, taking that proactive approach, not waiting for the yearly survey. Love it. Well, that's great, Alan. Thank you. We'll be right back. And up next, we're going to talk about navigating resistance to change. It's a challenge every leader faces when trying to move their organization forward. So thanks for your time and we'll be back soon.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: We'll be right back with more stories, lessons and practical tools to help you rise in leadership, business and life. This is Go Higher on NOW Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation that helps you lead live and love with purpose. Welcome back to Go Higher. Want more of what you're watching? Stay connected to Go Higher and every NOW Media TV favorite show, live or on demand, anytime you like. You can Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and unlock non stop bilingual programming in English and in Spanish on the move. You can also catch the podcast version right from our website at www.nowmedia.tv. from business and news to lifestyle, culture and beyond, Now Media TV is streaming around the clock. Ready whenever you are.
So I'm here again with Alan Neville, and in this segment, we're diving into one of the biggest barriers leaders encounter, and it's resistance to change. It's not an easy thing to do. And I'm really grateful to be with an expert today who has trained probably thousands at this point, tens of thousands, at least, if not more on this topic. So even when everyone agrees change is needed, please, pushback is almost guaranteed. We all have been through it. So the topic today is when leaders are often feeling stuck with employees resisting new processes, policies, or cultural changes, the problem isn't just about the change itself. It's about fear, uncertainty, and the way people experience the process. And as leaders, we're not always prepared and knowing how to handle that. So let's dive in. Alan, are you ready?
[00:16:16] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: You're always ready. I know this about you. So what are the most common reasons you've found that people resist change even when they say they want improvements?
[00:16:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's a, this is a great, fascinating topic.
It's funny, I, I've met so many leaders who themselves are Resistant to change that, you know, it's my philosophy that most of us are resistant to change.
It's just that some of us manage through that change curve a little more adeptly than others.
So ultimately, understanding that we all have some level of discomfort around change, being able to clearly articulate what's in it for me or what's in it for them is very important.
Also, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, ensure that folks are part of the change and they are involved, rather than the change just happening to them.
All of that being said, we have to acknowledge the fact that with a change, there's an ending, something has ended. And in order to get to that new beginning, there's a transition period that everyone has to go through. And quite often we refer to that as the change curve. And if you've ever seen that diagram, the curve kind of goes like this with that low point being what they refer to as the Valley of Despair or chaos.
Those folks who are more adept at change cycle through that curve rather quickly. But what we have to remember, particularly if we're a leader who's able to cycle through that quickly, we can't leave people behind.
And that's where I think that that reality check and ensuring that every member of the team, every member of the organization, regardless of title, regardless of level, understands how that change is impacting that person.
Done a lot of work in the area of change, going all the way back to before I started with Accenture, back during the days when it was known as Anderson Consulting. And we would go into different organizations and quite often we were doing a technology enabled solution for that company and you would find pockets of people who didn't trust the system, didn't trust the new technology. And the reason being no one really ever explained what was in it for them to use this new software, this new piece of technology.
So I think that's something that quite often we forget as leaders.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: And some of this is simple things. But you're right, a lot of the leaders are going through that chaos and Valley of Despair as well. So then they're having to lead from this place. And fun fact, the think I ever told you this because, you know, we use your training content for our change leadership management transition.
The first time we ever did it, we had the group of directors, we were training a lot of their team members. They said, can you move that change curve to the very front that is? So they needed to see that, they needed to know they weren't alone in this feeling. There's a human feeling to go through this, this chaos feeling. So I just think it shows how important it is for people to be aware that that that is normal and, and then giving real tools how to navigate through it. So thank you for that, Alan.
So next question for you is how can leaders anticipate the resistance and plan for it before a launch happens, a new change happens, what can they do?
[00:19:39] Speaker B: I think some of the, the things that you can do to kind of anticipate is again look back historically in the organization.
Most change efforts, if I remember correctly, probably 35% of change efforts, change management implementations actually work. So if that means that 65% of them generally fail, we have to look back at lessons learned what didn't work last time and how do we apply those learnings moving forward.
So some of the telltale signs are again, lack of engagement from leaders, lack of engagement from staff.
What I found is quite often we're trying to do some type of change. Perhaps it's moving from one and I'll use technology as an example, move from one technology platform to another. We have to realize that sometimes that resistance is within our own ranks as leaders.
Everyone isn't fully signed on and, and given a thumbs up to that change. So we have to really understand where do we as a leadership team stand on this and iron out any of those differences, those, those challenges before we go out to the masses and proclaim, you know, our, give our endorsement to this change. So a lot of times it starts in terms of cleaning up your own house first. If you use that analogy within the leadership ranks, what we don't realize quite often is the shadow that we as leaders cast. So if I'm a leader who isn't bought in on the change, it may not come out verbally from me, but that shadow that I cast will actually land on other employees across the organization and they'll say, well, if Alan isn't bought in, if Alan doesn't support it, why should I?
[00:21:31] Speaker A: It's not real. If my leader's not doing it, then I don't have to. Right? It communicates that. Oh, that's so good.
So good, Alan, thank you. So then let's talk more about some of the communication strategies. You know, you are talking about some already. But how can we help people feel part of the change instead of having it imposed on them, including leaders, by the way, because you're right, if the leaders aren't going to do it, the team will not follow. And I just read recently an article from McKinsey saying it's one of the top four reasons change fails that not all the leaders are on board. There's no way it will be successful to your point. So what are the strategies for communication?
[00:22:07] Speaker B: So what we found to be most effective is to create what we refer to as a what's changing document.
So I'll give you a little background around what that involves.
So for instance, you've got a department that's being impacted by this change.
Let's look at what their current processes were, what their new processes are going to be, and understand what's the delta, what's the difference between what I used to do and what I'm doing now.
And we document that.
So that's what that change is, but then also not just documenting it.
Empowering the employees, the staff who are being impacted by this change to figure out how do we move from what we were doing to what we're going to do in the future. Allow them to design the process, the workflows, the standard operating procedures, rather than it coming from the top down. Again, empowering the staff to take ownership and again, feel as though it's not being done to them, it's being done with them.
So, you know, I'm a big advocate of empowering the organization to help us get through the change. I may be the chief navigator, if you will, because I'm at the top of the food chain. I'm the overall most responsible, most accountable leader.
However, I can't get it done without the people.
So really giving them the tools and the resources that they need.
One of the things that I noticed when I was in management consulting, we would come into an organization and we'd have a change management team. But what you have to understand is at some point in time we're going to leave.
So who's going to truly own the solution, own the change? So it's very important to engage your folks early, early and often.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. That's amazing because you got to lead change in large organizations as a consultant and, and in your own organization now for others. So in so many different roles you've sat. So thank you for sharing that. Our next question is all about momentum because you need to have good momentum to get to the other side of the change. So can you share how some small wins can be used to build this momentum in a change process?
[00:24:23] Speaker B: You have to celebrate those small wins for any change.
I, I break it down like this. Generally for any change, you've probably got 20% of your organization who's all on board from day one. As soon as you say we're going to change something. They're like, rah, rah. Yeah, let's do it. So that's 20% on the back end. You have anywhere from 15 to 20% that I don't care what you do. They're not going to be happy, they're not going to be satisfied, and in fact, they will resist change.
So that middle group is who you really have to work on. Because depending on the day, depending on the weather, they may slide to the left or to the right based on how they're feeling.
So celebrating those quick wins and communicating them to that population is critically important.
You have to celebrate those quick wins.
And I mean, we've done things such as, you know, have a little small party. You know, maybe we, you know, have snacks that were that we're pushing around on a cart. When I worked in healthcare, we would actually load up a cart full of snacks and candy, etc. And walk the floors of our hospital giving out those gifts to our staff because we know that they're working tirelessly. That's something we did during COVID because in health care we were pretty much all on lockdown. So we would do those things to really help engage folks, to motivate, to inspire and to show that we really care.
So I think the celebration of those quick wins and documenting them and also communicating them in ways where everyone is in the know. Quite often if you're in a 24 by 7 operation, the folks on the second and third shifts, those who work nights, don't get the same access to information that perhaps those who work during the day get. So what we would do in that example of, you know, pushing the cart around with candy, we actually would go in at night as well. So at five in the morning, we're pushing the cart around with snacks, with treats for folks. I think you have to be very consistent based on your entire workforce to ensure that you meet them where they are.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And there's that theme of consistency again. And knowing you, Alan, you're not just handing the snack out. You're truly asking people, how are you? How's it going with this last change? What do you think? So it's so much more than it's like that extra step that you actually listen and care so well. Alan, we're already done with this segment. So much me and valuable tips you provided the audience. So before we move on though, where can viewers connect with you and learn more about you, your organization? Where's the best places they can find you?
[00:27:08] Speaker B: So there are a number of ways to connect with me as far as our organization. You can go to www.intefic, which is spelled I n t e t h I q.com to learn more about our organization.
You can definitely Find me on LinkedIn.
My name is Alan K. Neville and that's N E V E L. I don't think there are any other Alan K. Neville's out there. So you can connect to me through LinkedIn.
I'm also on social media platforms, all one word, a L A N N E V E L. You can find me on Instagram as well.
And for those who might be interested in learning more regarding my book, you can reach me the same way through all of those different means.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: And people can find you and bring you on and hire you as a speaker, as a trainer. There's many ways you can continue helping them with this content.
So wonderful. Thank you, Alan. We'll be right back. And up next, we're going to talk how to cultivate leadership at all levels, not just at the top.
We'll be right back with more stories, lessons and practical tools to help you rise in leadership, business and life. This is Go Higher on NOW Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation that helps you lead live and love with purpose.
Welcome back to Go Higher. I'm Erica Butler, host of Gohire, and I'm here with Alan Neville. So far we've explored restoring trust and overcoming resistance to change.
Now let's look at one of the keys to organizational growth, cultivating leadership at every level, not just the corner office.
You might have seen, we've already been talking about this, about empowerment quite a bit. So I'm really happy to dive deeper with Alan on this.
What we found is many companies slow down because leadership is concentrated in too few hands. Only those at the top might be getting the development and the support needed to grow. The challenge is unlocking potential across the workforce so that leadership is shared, supported and sustainable.
So with that, Alan, I'd love your recommendation. Your perspective. How do you spot leadership potential in people who don't have formal titles? Let's start there.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: Okay. So this is again, a fascinating topic to discuss.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: In terms of being able to kind of see some of those intangible traits from a leadership perspective.
Quite often I think it ties back to the words that I use when I explain the pillars or the cornerstones of my company. So integrity, ethics, authenticity.
Looking to make sure that it's an Equitable work environment for all. So I'm looking for those things. I'm looking at how that person engages with others. Are they able to meet people where they are, regardless of title, regardless of level, regardless of educational background? Those are some of the intangible traits. I believe we can teach you the business piece.
But some of those intangible.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Aspects, those traits some people have, other people don't have, and then you've got a whole lot of folks in the middle who have to further refine those skills. So those are some of the things that I look for. But. But in addition to that, I think from a leadership perspective, if we're looking to grow and develop more leaders, we have to look at ourselves in the mirror.
When you think about when you first started your career, Erica, you had perhaps a college degree, you perhaps were involved in some activities on campus, but you really didn't have a lot of business experience.
But someone gave you an opportunity, you took advantage of that opportunity, you were successful. And what do they do after that? They give you another opportunity.
Hopefully you're successful at that, then they give you another. And with each one of those opportunities, there's continuous improvement, continuous learning on your part. So whatever mistakes, minor mistakes you made between the first opportunity and the second, you apply those learnings and there's continuous improvement. But what I think we fail to recognize once we get into the C suite is the fact that we failed prevention probably a lot of times early on in our career. Oh, yes, what's important is, did someone give us another opportunity? So when I think back on my career, there are plenty of times when I failed. And quite frankly, the person that I reported to saw more in me than I saw in myself. My confidence was shaken. I wondered, wow, am I truly qualified? Am I the right person for this role? All these negative, you know, the negative self talk came in, but I had leaders who again saw more in me and said, alan, I believe in you so much, I'm going to give you another opportunity. Unfortunately, in many organizations you get one opportunity, and if you mess that up, you never get another one. So I think we as leaders need to really look ourselves in the mirror and remember how many mistakes we've made and give grace to those folks who we're trying to develop to bring up through the organization.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. What are we doing to lift them? What are we. There is. It's a teamwork thing. It's not just on them and their initiative, but are we encouraging them? Are we giving them a mentor? There's so much Leaders can do to help people lift. I totally agree with you. So go ahead, go ahead.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: It's funny because in a lot of organizations we look to human resources to be responsible to do that. And no, it's the leader. It's not HR's job to develop the talent, it's that leader's job. HR has the tools and resources to help, but it is not their responsibility, in my opinion.
[00:33:09] Speaker A: I agree. And the most successful leaders you both have seen are the ones who are promoting people out of their team. They're developing talent into the organization to other parts. They're not just saying, no, I don't want someone to take my job. They're not leading from fear. They really want people to take their job because they know they can do more then. And you know, you know, it's just such a beautiful thing when leaders do that. So going off of that, what kinds of training or mentoring best helps people lead from everyday positions? What do you recommend people do? Leaders or the employee? Whoever you want to share about.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Yes, so I'm a big proponent of on the job training, on the job experience.
You know, a lot of times we rely on our learning management system to educate you. But, but more often than not, whatever you learn in that, that, that module, you forget, 30 days later you can say, wow, I took a great online course. But if I were to ask you 30 days later, what did you, what did you learn? What did you remember? Typically the answer is nothing. So I think experiential learning is important. Giving people opportunities to work on projects, giving them stretch opportunities.
The other piece I think is very important.
And in those stretch opportunities. Let me back up for a second. Those special projects, those stretch opportunities being assigned to those does not consist of you going to get the coffee or you making the copies of the deck, the presentation deck, no, let's get you in there and you get your hands dirty actually doing work.
So that's very important.
I think another key piece is understanding the difference between mentors and sponsors. A lot of organizations will say, hey, you know, we want to give you a mentor.
My thought is, if I'm assigned to you as a mentor, what if we have nothing in common?
What if we don't get along?
So I'm very selective around setting up mentoring and coaching relationships. I want to have some intentionality around that to ensure success.
You have a higher probability of success when you actually make the effort. Rather than just assigning two people and not knowing whether they're going to be able to gel the other piece around that is sponsorship. In order to move successfully through an organization, it requires you to have someone who's willing to give two thumbs up that you're the right candidate for that next role.
Often when decisions are made on who's getting promoted, number one, you're not in the room to advocate for yourself. Number two, if there's nobody in that decision making group of three to five people that knows anything about you, that can't give a 30 second elevator speech, if you will, about Erica, you're not going to get promoted. So it's very important to have sponsors and advocates. And the key between a sponsor and a mentor is that that sponsor says, I stake my own personal reputation.
I put it on the line that Erica is the best candidate for that role.
So that's an endorsement, almost as though I'm signing my name that you are the right candidate. That speaks volumes. Particularly if I'm a leader who does have influence within the organization.
[00:36:36] Speaker A: I love you explaining the difference and sponsorships, it's not like you can force that. It's almost this natural thing that happens for some but not others. So I would love to just ask your opinion for our audience. What could they do to to get a sponsor? What are the actions, the behaviors that they need to be showing to have people advocate for them naturally.
[00:36:57] Speaker B: So it's funny you asked that question. I actually have a one pager that I use that I share with folks.
[00:37:02] Speaker A: Of course you do. Around the different send it to me.
[00:37:06] Speaker B: Between mentors and sponsors. And also, how do you go about getting a sponsor? I believe that if you are the individual who's looking to grow and develop and move into leadership, you actually have to interview people. Now that may sound unusual, but I suggest that you interview leaders in the organization because you want to make sure you connect with people who have both types of title and influence. Unfortunately, in a lot of organizations you have people with title, but they have zero influence. So really understanding and reading the tea leaves, if you will, around who are the movers and the shakers in the organization and also watch how they move. Are they people who have integrity, people who are authentic, transparent, etc. Because those are the traits that you want to.
[00:37:58] Speaker B: To emulate.
So what I recommend typically is you have three sponsors, all of whom are in different areas. So your first sponsor should be someone in your functional area. Your second should be someone who is adjacent to your area. So perhaps a recipient of what you do. Perhaps when you do something, you then hand it to the next department. A leader in that next department should be One of your sponsors. And lastly, someone who has what I call the it factor. If you are naturally introverted, okay, you don't see a lot of folks who are naturally introverted at high levels in organizations, unfortunately. But that is not something that is a deficit to you. How do you leverage that selective introversion to your benefit? So an IT factor example would be finding someone who's been successful, moved up into leadership, who's a natural introvert. They can give you tips and tricks on how to really become more of an ambivert.
Yep, in the right times, in the right moments. So those are some examples of that.
[00:39:08] Speaker A: And just from your very last example, you're saying people need to ask, ask, ask to get to know. And I think you and I are actually a great example of that because, what, over 10 years ago you became a sponsor of mine and I really thought highly of you and I wanted to learn from you. I reached out to you and said, well, you come to the business I'm in, we need help with some of these things. And you did. And we built a great relationship from that because I looked up to you. And now here you are getting to be, we get to work together more. It's amazing. And I think that all came from, well, you being a great leader, that people wanted to get to know you and learn from you. But then initiative and asking, I was scared to ask, why would Alan Neville call me back? I'm just being honest. Ten plus years ago, and, and you did, and you said yes. So if we're not asking, if we're not making some initiative, we probably won't have a sponsor as good as you.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: So yeah, that's really important because a lot of times, you know, I've seen so many people who will say, well, I've been at this organization for five years, for 10 years, I come to work every day, I work hard.
But your leader, your boss, is not going to understand by osmosis that you have higher aspirations, higher goals. So you have to learn to advocate for yourself. You have to ask. And I think for every no that you get, you're going to get 15 or 20 yeses.
So, so be comfortable with those few no's, knowing that you're going to get a disproportionate number of yeses in terms of people who do want to invest their time and their efforts in you and your development.
[00:40:47] Speaker A: I think that's one of the biggest shocks of my career. How many people actually would say yes that I didn't think would say yes? So I do think it's a game changer when you're willing to ask.
So we're I can't believe this. Ellen, I want to talk to you so much more about sponsorship and all of this. So we have to continue the conversation. But we're going to move on to our next segment. So coming up, we'll talk about how leaders can align purpose, mission and operations so that what's said from the top truly matches what employees see every day.
We'll be right back with more stories, lessons and practical tools to help you rise in leadership, business and life. This is Go Higher on NOW Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation that helps you lead live and love with purpose.
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We are back with our final segment with Alan Neville. Could continue this conversation for a lot longer, so we'll make the most of this last segment here.
Ellen neville Today will be in our last segments focusing on the big picture of aligning our purpose, our mission and operations because, because too often values around they could sound inspiring but they're really not lived out day to day and we miss out on that as small and mid sized organizations especially I see this. So I want to hear your thoughts about this topic. When purpose and operations don't align, employees can quickly notice that gap between what leadership says and what the organization actually does. So in closing that gap, it's vital for credibility and culture. And I see you nodding your head because you've live this, you've made these improvements. So let's start with this question.
What are the telltale signs when mission or values are not are just words and they're not lived out. What are some ways we can know this is happening in the organization?
[00:43:22] Speaker B: Well, as I mentioned earlier, the shadow that we cast as leaders is, is, is broad and long and, and also deep.
So you know, I reflect on a couple of instances in my career where I've seen leaders who have not walked the talk and.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: They'Ve been able to perhaps cover it up for a short period of time. But I truly believe that the truth will come out and it always does in some way, shape or form.
So really, when you look at an organization's mission, vision, values, obviously no mission, no margin. You know, if you don't have the margin, it's very hard to work and operate your mission.
But I also believe that from a values perspective, what you say your company stands for, every single person in that organization, from the top again down to the fir. The entry level employee has to live and breathe those values. I think about over my career, there were companies that I worked for early in my career. I never paid attention to the values, the mission, the vision. Hey, they were paying me X number of dollars every two weeks and it allowed me to pay my bills.
As I've gotten older and more seasoned, I would say I've been able to really look at and make decisions around what organizations do I want to join, what organizations do I want to partner with and what I've seen, particularly with younger generations now, they look at the press clippings, they look at what are your contributions to the community, to society, to the environment.
And they're making decisions on what organizations they want to join based on that.
So going back to your question where mission and values and purpose don't align, you are going to realize high turnover.
You're going to realize that perhaps your glass door review is going to be lower.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: That hurts.
[00:45:43] Speaker B: The word on the street about your organization is going to be, yeah, you might get paid a good salary there, but you're going to be miserable.
And I truly believe post Covid people have been making decisions. If you think about the great attrition for for instance, you saw people who had worked for companies for years all of a sudden walk away because they realized that there were more important things to life than just getting that salary.
So when I've seen instances of leaders who again have lacked integrity, I'm gonna go back to those same words. They've lacked integrity, they've lacked authenticity, transparency.
By not modeling the values, by not aligning everyone on purpose, and while they're behaving one way, they expect everyone else to behave a different way. It shows up and it shows up in a big way and ultimately impacts your business results. We really haven't talked about that. We've talked about more of the how you feel, but ultimately it impacts your bottom line.
So decreased productivity, decreased efficiency, decreased revenues, et Cetera. So ultimately you're not going to realize those successful business outcomes.
[00:46:57] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. And like you said before, if you're not financially sound margin, then you really can't live out any mission anyway because that's an important piece of the puzzle. For it doesn't matter if you're nonprofit church, it doesn't matter that matter that that's important part. So it really is the bottom line here. And that's why I think this is so important. And what I love about your company is, is every value you have backs all of this up because you can't have purpose and mission without the integrity, authenticity, all these things. So you just really call it out. That's why I'm so glad we're talking about this. So the next question I have for you is how can leaders align processes, decisions and people practices with when with the mission? When it's real observable, the team actually sees it day by day being lived out at the organization. How can people do this?
[00:47:48] Speaker B: So going back to something I shared earlier around, for instance, having those huddles, having those town hall meetings, you know, what we've done is rather than just, and I'll use the town hall meeting as an example, rather than just give a bunch of financial reports, here's how we're doing, here's how our margins, this is our quarterly revenues, etc. Tying it back to stories. I believe that storytelling is really, really important.
So for instance, when I was in healthcare, we would make sure that not only did we share our business results, we would also share a couple of patient stories.
Here's how the work that we do saves someone's life. Here's how the work that we do improved outcomes for people.
[00:48:38] Speaker B: One of the great things that we had when I was in healthcare was we were the only healthcare system in, in the United States that had a high school inside of the hospital.
So we were very focused on developing the next generation, the workforce of the future, if you will, by having them literally boots on the ground in our hospital.
So not only were they getting their normal academic training and studies, they were also having an opportunity to interact with folks like you and I on a daily basis who were already in careers that they aspired to.
We knew that that was an opportunity for us to build that pipeline of talent, but it also did good for the community, it did good for the neighborhood around our hospital.
So really being able to share those types of stories, we would literally have students come in to those town halls and give a testimonial of Sorts around what they were learning. And they were always part of our hospital family.
So those students would graduate high school, go on to college. But we even guaranteed them that they would have a job with us if they desired to come back at any point in time. Sharing that along with your financial statements, along with your quality statements, you know, customer feedback, all of those things, you have to package it all up. It's not just about the numbers.
[00:50:05] Speaker A: Wow, you're so right. And I didn't know that about the high school being with that. That's amazing. That is such a unique and special setup for those high school kids. Very cool. And I think I imagine being one of the employees and how inspiring. I would be so proud to work for an organization that really was living it out and doing that. I mean, that's really, really special. So that's a great example.
So we find in these times there's derailers. Maybe some leaders are great at leading this, but like, and they've lived the values and they're doing all the, you know, the things we've been talking about. But what on the other side, when we have employees or leaders who are derailing and not living it out, are there ways that you can correct coach? How do you remove move this. These situations?
[00:50:52] Speaker B: So. So I think many of us.
[00:50:57] Speaker B: As we move into more senior roles.
[00:51:01] Speaker B: I've seen a lot of people begin to lack self awareness perhaps and perhaps ego and those types of things come into play. So I believe everyone deserves a chance.
So when we encounter leaders who are perhaps struggling with those things, I think it's very important to have a conversation, have a crucial conversation with them.
Many folks would say, well, hey, let's just fire them, let's just get rid of them. I think everyone deserves a chance because we all have blind spots. You know, you and I, we've done well in our careers, but we still have those blind spots. So to have someone who can come to you and in all sincerity share with you those blind spots is very important.
Now we have to understand that once you've been made aware of that issue, the expectation is that you're going to change those behaviors. But I also think we have to give that person the opportunity to opt out. If they choose to. We have to give them permission that if this is no longer the organization that and the expectations that we have are contrary to what you can deliver, then we need to let that person leave the organization. However, we let them leave with dignity and with grace and with self respect.
That is so important. Now as I mentioned we were talking about Glassdoor, for instance, when.
[00:52:32] Speaker B: When we don't allow employees to leave, even if it's a reduction in force, when we don't allow them to leave with their head held high with dignity and self respect, that comes back to haunt us. It comes back to bite us.
So it's very important that we do that.
[00:52:50] Speaker A: And it's not a nice culture for everybody else watching it and being part of it. It's not a positive culture. So I couldn't agree more with you. I think those are really tangible examples. And I think when we're not addressing integrity is telling the truth and being honest to people, even in the hard conversations. And I do think as leaders, even if we're living the values ourself, if we're not addressing when it's not happening and not dealing with it, we will never hit the targets we're trying to hit and really see values lived out. So amazing examples. Thank you.
[00:53:21] Speaker B: Yeah. There's a quote that. There's a quote that I share quite often when I. When I do public speaking or, or do workshops, and it's by Maya Angelou, and I believe it's. It's really, really poignant.
People will forget what you did, they will forget what you said, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
[00:53:43] Speaker B: And I think we as leaders need to always keep that in the back of our minds because ultimately, how we make people feel really.
[00:53:54] Speaker B: Really builds whatever legacy we're trying to create.
If you're the type of leader where you have a trail of victims behind you.
[00:54:04] Speaker B: People will remember that. And you will not be someone who is beloved, who is respected, and it shows up.
And I've never wanted to be that type of leader. And I know you've never wanted as well.
[00:54:19] Speaker A: No, it's better when people want to be on your team and it's not hard to recruit good talent. And when you treat people that way, it's a lot. Everything's easier, Everything becomes easier. So I love that and you live it.
So, Alan, I could go on and on. It's been incredibly valuable having you today.
So please share where people can find your work and continue the conversation. We gave them some examples, but please share again so everyone can know how to keep the conversation going and continue to leverage your wisdom and services.
[00:54:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I invite people to connect to me through LinkedIn. Again, it's Alan, A L, A N, middle initial K. As in Keith Neville. N, E V, E, L.
So you can connect to me through LinkedIn. You can follow me on Instagram Facebook. It's just all one word. Allen Neville and then also to learn more about Intethic and the work that we're doing across a multitude of industries, again focused on an intentional focus on integrity, ethics, authenticity and equity for all. Follow us at www.inteq.com Intefic.com and thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. As always, it's a privilege and a pleasure to just have a conversation with you.
[00:55:42] Speaker A: Well, it was a blast. It was a blast. So just to recap, we we shared a lot of powerful insights on restoring trust, overcoming resistance to change and transition, unlocking leadership across the organization, not just at the top, and aligning mission with our daily actions as leaders. So these are lessons every leader can really take to horror and grow from.
So to our viewers, I really do encourage you to reflect on these areas and, you know, what speaks to you in your organization. Right now, we're about applying these concepts to really make an impact and go higher. So until next time, I'm Erica Butler with Go Higher, and thank you so much for watching.
